THE MORMON SEEKER DIALOGUE

TOMS Trainees are to memorize this "ideal" dialogue between a Mormon Seeker and a Baha'i TOMS (Teacher of Mormon Seekers); including "role-playing" (one trainee playing the part of Mormon Seeker, and the other the Baha'i TOMS).

Here are "9 Rules" for Teaching Mormon Seekers.

1. DO NOT refer to Baha'u'llah as a "Prophet". Refer to Him as "The Spirit of Truth" and "The Holy Ghost Incarnate" and "Heavenly Father". To call him a "prophet" will confuse Mormons, who are taught from birth that the leaders of the Church are "Prophets". Baha'u'llah is the One Who inspired the Prophets. He is the Holy Spirit. Say: "Baha'u'llah was the Incarnation of the Holy Ghost--the One Who inspired all the Prophets! He was greater than all the Prophets!"

2. DO NOT say "We have nothing to say about Joseph Smith!" Rather say, "While the Faith has nothing officially to say about Joseph Smith or The Book of Mormon, Shoghi Effendi DID purportedly once call Joseph Smith a "Seer"--meaning a non-prophet who speaks with angels."

3. DO NOT offer the "12 Principles" as "What Baha'is believe!" That will confuse Mormon Seekers! Rather, offer them the "19 Beliefs" (copy in Appendix of this publication) which are much more comprehensive and inclusive. You can print out The 19 Beliefs from: http://mustagath.angelfire.com/BELIEFS.html

4. DO NOT say "The priesthood has been abrogated by Baha'u'llah" but rather, "The Baha'i Faith has no priesthood but an Administrative Order which includes men and women in all positions of authority except for the worldwide Governing Body."

5. DO NOT say "Jesus came only to unite cities, to improve the status of minorities and women, and to prepare the way for Muhammad". That will cheapen Him in the eyes of Mormon Seekers. Rather, say: "The Faith teaches that Jesus was the Son of God and born of a literal virgin and the Holy Ghost, just as The Book of Mormon teaches. 'Abdu'l-Baha called Him 'The very Savior of man.'" (PUP p.62)

6. DO NOT say "Baha'is do not believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet" but rather say, "Shoghi Effendi--the Guardian of the Faith--believed that Joseph Smith was a Seer, and Seers can prophesy[praw-fess-sai] , and Baha'is are allowed to believe that Joseph Smith prophesied of Baha'u'llah in the capacity of a SEER--they can hold this as a Personal Doctrine, but its not an official doctrine of the Faith."

7. DO NOT say "Jesus was never raised from the dead" bu say, "The Faith teaches that Jesus was never raised physically from the dead--meaning what His disciples saw after His death were visions."

8. DO NOT say "Baha'is don't believe that The Book of Mormon is true" nor "We have nothing to say about The Book of Mormon" but rather say "The Faith has nothing official to say about The Book of Mormon. Shoghi Effendi believed that Joseph Smith was a Seer, and Seers are not religious frauds. The Book of Mormon may be historical, or it may be a prophetic parable about the future of America. We just don't know. But even The Book of Mormon says it contains 'the mistakes on men' (title page). Our Scriptures are infallible. They have no mistakes. Our Holy Writings are the Torah (five books of Moses), the Gospels, the Qur'an, and the Holy Texts of the Faith."

9. ALWAYS offer Mormon Seekers a copy of "1891" or refer them to the website if you have no more copies. Left. Say: "This publication--1891-- is not an official Baha'i publication, but the author believes that Joseph Smith prophesied of Baha'u'llah in his capacity as a Seer. I agree this is quite possible, but please judge for yourself. Please take it for a couple of weeks. Read it and let me know what you think of it ok?"

The Teacher of Mormon Seekers is responsible for getting the loaned copy of "1891" back from the Mormon Seeker after a period of two weeks.

NOTE: Some Seekers calling themselves "Mormon" are NOT Mormons Seekers. Rather, they are "Ex-Mormon Seekers". They do not believe that Joseph Smith was inspired of God in any way. Do not include them as "Mormon Seekers". Many of these types will call themselves "Mormons" because their names are still on the records of the Church, or they are "cultural Mormons" (Mormons in name only) because they were baptized into the Church at 8 years old, but they no longer believe or never believed in Mormonism). These are not Mormon Seekers. Do not use the TOMS Method with Ex-Mormons.

Additional copies of The Mormon Seeker Dialogue can be printed from the following website:

http://mustagath.angelfire.com/MSD.html

The MSD is not copyrighted. Please make copies for others.


The Mormon Seeker Dialogue

SEEKER: "Hi, I saw the ad in the newspaper about a free book about how Joseph Smith prophesied of Baha'u'llah. I want to know more."

TOMS: "Ok, we have a public meeting called a Seeker's Meeting--takes about 40 minutes. We have a video and refreshments, and we can give you a copy of 1891 there, or we can just mail you 1891. We can pick you up and take you to the Seeker's Meeting and then back home if you wish. Or, we can mail you a copy of 1891. Which would you prefer?"

SEEKER: "Do Baha'is believe that Joseph Smith was a true Prophet of God?"

TOMS: "The Faith has no 'official' doctrine about Joseph Smith or The Book of Mormon. But the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith--the great-grandson of Baha'u'llah--believed that Joseph Smith was a SEER--meaning a non-prophet who speaks with angels. That's NOT official Baha'i doctrine, but Baha'is can believe that Joseph Smith was a Seer who prophesied of Baha'u'llah in the capacity of a Seer if they wish to believe it. But this is not official Baha'i doctrine."

SEEKER: "What is official Baha'i doctrine regarding Joseph Smith?"

TOMS: "There is no official Baha'i doctrine on Joseph Smith or Mormonism, but Baha'is MAY accept him as an inspired SEER, as a personal belief."

SEEKER: "Can I believe that Joseph Smith was a fraud and that The Book of Mormon was a fraud too in order to make money, and still be a Baha'i?"

TOMS: "Yes you certainly may, if you don't try to force this personal belief upon other Baha'is."

SEEKER: "Does the Baha'i Faith accept The Book of Mormon as true?"

TOMS: "There is no official Baha'i doctrine on The Book of Mormon. Shoghi Effendi--the great grandson of Baha'u'llah and Guardian of the Faith--was once asked if The Book of Mormon was historical or not. He wrote back saying it was a matter for historians to pass upon. Baha'is are FREE to accept The Book of Mormon as historical, as a prophetic parable about America, or even reject it as fraudulent. All views are acceptable in the Faith."

SEEKER: "What do you mean by prophetic parable?"

TOMS: "Well, have you read 1891? The author of that work believed that The Book of Mormon was written by a group of men from Ephrata, Pennsylvania, called the Zionitic Brotherhood. The author of 1891 believes that THE BOOK OF MORMON is a parable about America and its future. Would you like to read 1891? It is NOT an official Baha'i publication, but I found it very interesting reading. Would you like me to loan you a copy for a couple of weeks?"

SEEKER: "Do Baha'is believe in baptism?"

TOMS: "Yes, but not water baptism. 'Abdu'l-Baha, the Son of Baha'u'llah, taught that water baptism is no longer necessary. The only baptism that is necessary is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and that comes to a person when they have surrendered their own will to the Will of God."

SEEKER: "How does one become baptized by the Holy Spirit?"

TOMS: "One has to surrender their own will to the will of God. Baha'is do that by walking the Path of Holiness, which includes accepting Baha'u'llah and obeying His laws and ordinances."

SEEKER: "How does one become a Baha'i?"

TOMS: "To become a Baha'i one has to sincerely believe that Baha'u'llah is the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Ghost Incarnate, and then read and sign a Declaration Card. After that, they are a Believer."

SEEKER: "My Church is run by a Living Prophet--Thomas Monson. Why hasn't HE said anything about Baha'u'llah?"

TOMS: "You say he is a Living Prophet? Ok. Where are his prophecies? May I read his prophecies?"

SEEKER: "Oh....ah...he doesn't make any prophecies."

TOMS: "I see. He claims to be a living Prophet, but makes no prophecies. That is strange. Baha'u'llah made many prophecies, and they were all fulfilled. You can read His prophecis and their fulfillment in books like The Prisoner and the Kings and The Challenge of Baha'u'llah. I can loan you one of those books for a week if you like."

SEEKER: "Do Baha'is believe in Eternal Marriage?"

TOMS: "Yes! 'Abdu'l-Baha, the Son of Baha'u'llah, taught that Baha'i couples who reach an EXALTED STATE of spirituality in this life whereby they BECOME ONE physically and spiritually, will achieve ETERNAL UNION throughout all the Worlds of God."

SEEKER: "My Church teaches that to be married for eternity a man and woman must be SEALED in a Mormon Temple, by a SEALER who has the priesthood authority from the Living Prophet."

TOMS: "There is no priesthood or sealer or temple that is needed. The only Sealer is Baha'u'llah--Who is the HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE. He does ALL the sealing! No priesthood or temple or temple rite is necessary. Only believe in Baha'u'llah is necessary, and walking the Path of Holiness until one reaches an EXALTED STATE of spirituality."

SEEKER: "Do Baha'is believe that men and women may become Gods and Goddesses like the Mormons do, and create their own planets, and beget spirit children for those planets?"

TOMS: "The Faith teaches there is only ONE GOD, so men and women cannot become Gods or Goddesses. There is nothing in the Faith about begetting children in the Afterlife. The Holy Qu'ran, the Holy Book of Islaam--which Baha'is accept as infallible Scripture--teaches that those who merit Paradise shall be married in Paradise. Baha'u'llah endorsed the teachings of a Shi'ite Muslim Seer named SHAYKH AHMAD al-AHSA'I, and the Shaykh Ahmad taught that those who merit Paradise will inherit Paradise, and that in Paradise WHATSOEVER a true Believer can imagine with their minds is created for them in Paradise. For example, if he can imagine a favorite pet, then the SIMILITUDE of that pet is created in Paradise. The inhabitants of Paradise are called IMMORTALS. Anything an IMMORTAL can imagine in Paradise it created for them in that dimension."

SEEKER: "What is a SIMILITUDE?"

TOMS: "It means an exact replica in all respects. For example, if a man walks the Path of Holiness, and his soul changes from a human soul into an angelic soul, and he goes to Paradise, but he is lonely, then he can imagine a favorite pet or pets, or loved ones, and the SIMILITUDES of those beings are created for him. But if his wife is also a Baha'i, and also has reached an EXALTED STATE of holiness on Earth, then she will be with him in Paradise--not just her similitude. Those are the teachings of the Muslim Seer Shaykh Ahmad al-Ahsa'i, and Baha'u'llah endorsed his teachings. Baha'is are not FORCED to accept these teachings."

SEEKER: "What is the Path of Holiness?"

TOMS: "Here, I will give you a copy of the 19 Beliefs which includes the 9 steps of the Path of Holiness. This is your copy to keep."

NOTE: Copies of The Path of Holiness are online at:

http://mustagath.angelfire.com/BELIEFS.html

SEEKER: "Where is Paradise? Is it like the Celestial Kingdom in Mormon beliefs?"

TOMS: "Paradise, according to the SHAYKHEE teachings--the teachings of Shaykh Ahmad al-Ahsa'i, is all around us, in a higher dimension--a higher Realm which we cannot currently see. For example, a plant is living, but is not aware of our dimension. In like manner, WE are living, but we are not aware of the higher dimensions."

SEEKER: "How many higher dimensions are there?"

TOMS: "According to SHAYKHEE teachings, the Cosmos has five dimensions:
*HEYHOOT--the Realm of the Essence of God--ALLAH.
**LAWHOOT--the Realm of the Names/Attributes of God
***JAWBAWRROOT--the Realm of the Immortals
****MAWLAWKOOT--the Realm of the Angels
*****NAWSOOT--the Realm of the Physical Beings

SEEKER: "Mormonism teaches that there are three Heavens--the Celestial Kingdom, the Terrestrial Kingdom, and the Telestial Kingdom--and a Kingdom of No Glory called 'Outer Darkness'. Does the Faith have similar teachings?

TOMS: "Again--there are Five Realms--we are currently living in NAWSOOT--the Physical Realm--which is the lowest Realm."

SEEKER: "Do Baha'is believe there is sex in Heaven as the Church teaches?"

TOMS: "The Holy Quran teaches that those who merit Paradise will be wed to their wives, recline upon thrones, drink delicious nectors, eat delicious fruits, and be served day and night by male and female servants. Most Baha'is believe these are metaphors for things and conditions we cannot currently understand. A plant cannot understand the human realms. So we cannot comprehend the higher realms. Even plants have sex. They cast off seeds. But they cannot possibly comprehend human love. So too, we cannot yet comprehend the love between beings in the higher realms."

SEEKER: "So, the Baha'i Paradise is like the Holodeck on Star Trek?"

TOMS: "Again, Baha'u'llah did not describe what Paradise was like. He merely said: "As regards to Paradise, it is a reality and there can be no doubt about it." (Tablet to Va'fa) But, He did not describe Paradise. But, HE DID endorse the teachings of the Shi'ite Muslim Seer Shaykh Ahmad, who did describe Paradise. He said it was like a beautiful dream that was absolutely real, but not real. Anything that an Immortal can imagine, is created for them in Paradise--where the mind of an Immortal control ETHEREAL (ee-ther-ree-ul) matter. In THIS realm--Nawsoot--the physical realm--matter controls mind. But, in Jawbawroot--the Realm of the Immortals--mind controls matter.

SEEKER: "Can I read the teachings of Shaykh Ahmad al-Ahsa'i?"

TOMS: "Yes, his books are available in Arabic and Persian. They are not published by the Baha'is but by the SHAYKHEES of Iran and Behrain. Do you speak either of those languages? No! Then, sorry."

SEEKER: "As a Mormon I was taught that going to the Celestial Kingdom--one had to be a faithful Member of the Church--does the Faith teach the same thing?"

TOMS: "The Faith teaches that ones does NOT have to be a Baha'i in order to go to Paradise, but it certainly helps! All one must do is become BORN AGAIN--meaning the Holy Spirit has to TRANSFORM their human soul into an angelic soul. This happens when a person reaches an EXALTED STATE of spirituality. There is no rite or ritual that accomplishes this."

SEEKER: "Why can't women serve on the House of Justice?"

TOMS: "We do not know. We can speculate, but there is no official doctrine as to why."

SEEKER: "What does the Baha'i Faith have to say about homosexuality?"

TOMS: "Baha'u'llah forbids Believers--Baha'is--from practicing anything harmful to the soul--and according to Baha'u'llah--homosexual ACTS are harmful to the soul. We don't know WHY they is harmful to the soul. We simply trust Baha'u'llah on this. Gay or Lesbian Baha'is must remain celebate, or get married in heterosexual marriages, in order to remain accepted Believers in Baha'u'llah. All Baha'is must remain celebate outside of heterosexual marriage.

SEEKER: "What does the Faith have to say about masturbation and pornography?"

TOMS: "Baha'u'llah forbids Believers from doing anything that harms the soul. He said: "Do not commit fornication, adultery, homosexual ACTS, or LECHERY". Masturbation and pornography fall under the category of LECHERY. It is HARMFUL TO THE SOUL. We don't know WHY it is harmful, but we trust Baha'u'llah is the Spirit of Truth, and we trust what He wrote. If it is harmful to the soul---we don't practice it. We try to overcome it by becoming more spiritual by WALKING THE PATH OF HOLINESS."

SEEKER: "But WHY would God make a person GAY, if God doesn't WANT a person to be GAY?"

TOMS: "We don't know. All we KNOW, is that certain sexual behaviors are harmful the soul, and the purpose of the Faith is to THE PROGRESS OF THE SOUL, and Baha'u'llah forbade Believers from certain acts, because these acts are harmful to the soul. So, He forbade them. He did not explain WHY these behaviors were harmful. He did not explain WHY some people are gay and others are not gay. We simply trust Baha'u'llah, because we believe HE is the Spirit of Truth, and knows the Will of God."

SEEKER: "What do Baha'is believe about Hell?"

TOMS: "The descriptions of Hell and Hell-fire in the Bible and the Qu'ran are metaphors. Of what, we are not sure. Negative things in the afterlife. Shaykh Ahmad taught that Hell-fire was a metaphor of a life on a material planet--where the Sun burns and wares-out our skins, and where we experience pain, sorrow, and death. In other words, we are living in HELL now. But there is NO ETNERAL UNENDING HELL in Baha'i doctrine. All souls will, in the Afterlife, have a chance to repent and walk the Path of Holiness, but IF they reject the Messengers of God and their Message in THIS life--they will have to suffer in the next--at least for some length of time, but NOT for all eternity."

SEEKER: "Do Baha'is believe in reincarnation?"

TOMS: "No. If you mean HUMAN souls returning to THIS material planet, then no. The Earth is like a womb. We cannot return to this physical planet anymore than we can return to the womb of our own mothers. Human souls have only ONE life on this planet. However, other material lives on OTHER material planets is certainly possible. But, the PURPOSE of religion is to help us ESCAPE the Physical Realm--NAW-SOOT--so that our souls may progress and go on to the IM-material Realms--where life is much more pleasant than in the material realm."

SEEKER: "How is Baha'u'llah the return of Christ? Was He the reincarnation of Jesus?"

TOMS: "Jesus Christ was a combination of Two Divine Beings: Jesus and Christ. By the term 'Christ' we mean the HOLY SPIRIT Who dwealt ______in______ Jesus for three years--from His baptism in the Jordan River to just before His death on the Cross when Jesus cried: 'My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?' The Christ left Him. By 'Jesus' we mean the WORD of God Incarnate. Christ was the Holy Ghost. Jesus was the WORD Incarnate. Christ--the Holy Ghost--became INCARNATE (in the flesh) as Baha'u'llah, born in 1817 in Iran. Baha'u'llah is the RETURN of Christ--the Holy Spirit that dwelt "IN" Jesus 2,000 years ago. But He is NOT the reincarnation of Jesus."

SEEKER: "Is 'Abdu'l-Baha the return of Christ?, or the reincarnation of Jesus?"

TOMS: "'Abdu'l-Baha was NOT the return of Christ! Christ was the Holy Spirit who dwelt "IN" Jesus! Baha'u'llah was the Incarnation of that Spirit. 'Abdu'l-Baha was NOT Christ! He was NOT a Manifestation of God. But, Baha'u'llah called Him the 'WORD'. In the Gospel of John, chapter one, it says the WORD was with God, and the WORD was divine, and the WORD became flesh as Jesus of Nazareth (John 1:14) But...there is no 'official' Baha'i doctrine that 'Abdu'l-Baha was the RETURN of the WORD."

SEEKER: "I thought Baha'is don't believe in reincarnation?"

TOMS: "Human souls cannot return, but the souls of the Prophets and Chosen Ones are not human souls. They have Divine Souls."

SEEKER: "Who are the Chosen Ones?"

TOMS: "A Chosen One is not a Prophet, but still an exalted Being. We don't have a 'list' of the Chosen Ones, but they no doubt include many holy men and women throughout the ages, but we don't have a list of them. Certainly, the Apostles of Jesus--including Peter and Paul--were not Prophets, but Chosen Ones."

SEEKER: "Could Joseph Smith have been a Chosen One?"

TOMS: "That is possible, but we just don't know."

SEEKER: "Was 'Abdu'l-Baha a Chosen One?"

TOMS: "'Abdu'l-Baha had a UNIQUE station between the human world and the World of God. Baha'u'llah called Him the 'WORD' and the 'Master' and the 'Mystery of God'."

SEEKER: "Those are terms used for Jesus in the Gospels."

TOMS: "Yes, they are."

SEEKER: "So, is He the return of Jesus?"

TOMS: "That is a mystery. That is something I cannot tell you. Only the Holy Spirit can tell you if that is true or not."

SEEKER: "What is your personal opinion?"

TOMS: "I'll tell you a true story. This is from a book titled 'Abdu'l-Baha by a Baha'i historian named Hasan Balyuzi. He relates that in 1911, 'Abdu'l-Baha was visiting Paris. At the time, a very holy American woman was living with her daughter in New York City. The woman dreamed many times that Jesus appeared to her and told her he had returned. She told her daughter, and her 11-year old daughter went to a globe and put her finger on France, and said 'Jesus is here!' The next day the woman and her daughter were out walking, and the daughter pointed to a magazine kiosk. The daughter yelled: "There He is! There is Jesus!" The woman looked, and noticed her daughter was pointing to a photograph of 'Abdu'l-Baha in Paris. The mother and daughter took a ship to France the next day and met 'Abdu'l-Baha."

SEEKER: "So, you are saying that the Son of Baha'u'llah was Jesus reincarnated?"

TOMS: "Again, that is a mystery. I'm just relaying the true story to you. Take from it what you may. But, again, Jesus was just a SINLESS VESSAL for the Holy Spirit. Jesus said 'The Father is greater than I'. The Father is greater than the Son. So, Christ, the Father, has returned as Baha'u'llah. It is Him that we look to and follow. 'Abdu'l-Baha means 'Servant of Glory'. He is the Exemplar of the Faith--the most perfect example of what a Baha'i must be."

SEEKER: "Is HE or is He not?"

TOMS: "I really DO NOT KNOW! But what I DO KNOW is that 'Abdu'l-Baha told us to look to Baha'u'llah--not to Him. We are Baha'is--the followers of Baha'u'llah. We are not the followers of 'Abdu'l-Baha. But, He is our Exemplar--the Perfect Example--of what every Baha'i should be. That is why Baha'is have photos of Him in their homes and places of worship. He is our Exemplar. Even JESUS Himself said: 'Do not worship me, worship the Father'. Baha'u'llah is the Father."

SEEKER: "Mormonism teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate Men, but the Faith teaches that the Holy Ghost is the Father?"

TOMS: "I believe it says in the Doctrine & Covenants, section 93, Verse 23, that--'Ye were in the beginning with the Father--who is Spirit--even the Spirit of Truth'. The term 'Spirit of Truth' is another term for the Holy Ghost. So, yes, the Father and the Holy Ghost are one and the same in the Faith."

SEEKER: "It says in the Doctrine and Covenants that the Son of Man comes NOT in the form of a woman, nor as a man who travels on the Earth. Did Baha'u'llah travel on the Earth?"

TOMS: "Actually, He travelled always by horse or wagon or ship. As a young boy he wrote everywhere. He was a Persian noblemen. They rode horses. The common people walked. This bowed His legs, which made walking difficult. He literally did not travel ______ON_____ the earth."

SEEKER: "As a Mormon I'm taught that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the ONLY TRUE CHURCH upon the face of the entire earth. So, how can the Baha'i Faith ALSO be true at the same time?"

TOMS: "The Faith is NOT a Church! The Faith has no Gospel ordinances. The Faith is a KINGDOM! It is the Millennial Kingdom __________in embryo_______! The Church was established to PREPARE THE WAY for the Millennial Kingdom. The Dispensation of Baha'u'llah will last for 1000 literal years. It is the MILLENNIAL KINGDOM in embryo. You can read more about that in the publication 1891. Would you like a copy? I can loan you one for two weeks."

SEEKER: "But, if the Baha'i Faith is the Millennial Kingdom, why is not planet Earth experiencing total peace?"

TOMS: "The Faith is the Millennial Kingdom ____IN EMBRYO___. It has not been born yet! The Baha'is will one day establish The World Order of Baha'u'llah. THAT will be the beginning of the Millennium."

SEEKER: "When will the World Order of Baha'u'llah be established?"

TOMS: "We do not know. Before the World Order of Baha'u'llah is established, there will be a New World Order, and before THAT is established, there will be a worldwide Calamity in which a third of mankind will perish. We DO NOT KNOW when these things will be. We DO NOT KNOW what the Calamity will be."

SEEKER: "Isn't the New World Order going to be an evil empire ruled by the Anti-Christ?"

TOMS: "Baha'u'llah was once asked HOW the Baha'i Faith will eventually become the World State Religion. He is PURPORTED to have said the following:

*There will come a great Calamity, which will kill a third of all mankind.

**After the Calamity, the survivors will form a world government.

***Christians and Muslims and people of other religions will fight one another, and the New World Order will ban all religion in order to keep peace.

****In a few generations, without religious education, the peoples of the world will become very wicked, and the leaders of the New World Order will decide to promote ONE WORLD RELIGION as a unifying force, and to give the masses moral direction. They will choose the Baha'i Faith because of its emphasis on moral purity and loyalty to goverment.

*****After several generations--when the atheistic leaders of the New World Order die off--they will be replaced with Baha'is--who will then transform the New World Order into the World Order of Baha'u'llah---and the Earth will experience peace and prosperity for 1000 literal years."

SEEKER: "So, the Baha'is in the New World Order will outlaw every other religion?"

TOMS: "No! That's NOT what I said! The atheistic and agnostic leaders of the New World Order--seeing that the masses needed religious instruction--will allow the Baha'i Faith to be promoted. But, when the evil leaders die out, they will be replaced by Baha'is, who will then turn the New World Order into the World Order of Baha'u'llah. In the World Order of Baha'u'llah all religions will be legal--except for a few which include harmful practices."

SEEKER: "But what about the Mark of the Beast, 666, the coming Anti-Christ?"

TOMS: "The Apostle John wrote the Book of Revelation, the Apocalyse, on the Island of Patmos off of Turkey, about 90A.D. He wrote mostly of things occurring in HIS day--not OUR day. For example:

*666-Refers to NERON KESAR (Nero Ceasar). In Hebrew N-E-R-O-N K-E-S-A-R adds to "666".

**Mark of the Beast--this refers to the Image of the Ceasar which is 'marked' upon Roman coins and Roman buisiness licenses. One cannot buy or cell without the 'mark' (image of ceasar).

***THE BEAST--a beast John sees arising out of the sea with 7 heads and 10 horns, and 10 crows on the 10 horns--refers to the Roman Empire--built upon 7 Hills of Rome, had 10 Ceasars rule until John wrote The Apocalyse around 90 A.D. on the island of Patmos.

****The False Prophet--refers to Simon Magus, a contemporary of Jesus and Peter, a Samaritan "magician" (hypnotist) who made people think the busts of Nero could move and speak. He is the father of Gnosticism (naws-ti-sizsm). The Gnostics (nos-tiks) inspired the Nazis, KKK, and other evil groups around the world.

These things refer to things in John's day, but not to our day.

SEEKER: "How can Baha'u'llah be Christ returned when the signs in the heavens have not occurred yet? Like the Sun turning dark, the Moon turning to blood, the stars falling from heaven?"

TOMS: "All these SIGNS have already occurred! Even Joseph Smith identified THE NIGHT OF THE FALLING STARS as having occurred in Novemember of 1833! The signs in the heavens have already happened! I have a copy of a website about that. I'll give you a copy.

NOTE: Available at:
http://mustagath.angelfire.com/SIGNS.html

SEEKER: "Ok, well, I'm interested. But WHY hasn't the Living Prophet of my Church told me about all this?"

TOMS: "We don't believe that the leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are Prophets~Seers~Revelators. They do NOT prophesy/see/revelate. Where are their prophecies? Where are their ACCOUNTS of their supernatural visions? Where are their Revelations?" (hold your tongue....allow the Mormon Seeker to ponder these questions...no matter how long it takes...hold your tongue and be silent...!!!)

SEEKER: "Where are the prophecies and visions and revelations of the current leaders of the Baha'i Faith?"

TOMS: "The leaders of the Baha'i Faith are NOT prophets! They aren't even Seers! WE don't claim they are. They are just elected govenors. But the prophecies of Baha'u'llah can be found in books like THE PRISONER AND THE KINGS or THE CHALLENGE OF BAHA'U'LLAH. I can loan one of these books to you if you like. The visions and revelations of Baha'u'llah are in His Holy Writings."

SEEKER: "Ok, well, where do I go from here if I want to study the Faith?"

TOMS: "I'll give you some free literature before you go. Please take it with you and read it. Also, I'll LOAN you a copy of 1891 for TWO WEEKS! Please bring it back. We're having another Seeker's Meeting on the ________ on this month! Please come!"

SEEKER: "I used to be a missionary for the Church. As a missionary we told people to read THE BOOK OF MORMON and pray about it. Have YOU read The Book of Mormon?"

TOMS: "YES I have! I read a Plain English Edition of the Book."

SEEKER: "Did you pray about what you read?"

TOMS: "Yes, and the feeling I received is that whoever wrote the book was under the influence of the Holy Spirit when he or they wrote it. Baha'u'llah is the Holy Spirit."

SEEKER: "So, you believe that THE BOOK OF MORMON is true? It is true history of the Nephites (nee-fights) in ancient America?"

TOMS: "I didn't say that. I said that I believe that THE BOOK OF MORMON was inspired. I also believe that that BHAGAVAD-GITA--the great Hindu SONG OF THE LORD--is also inspired of God. But, I don't believe it is historical."

SEEKER: "How can The Book of Mormon be TRUE but NOT historical at the same time? That doesn't make sense!"

TOMS: "Tell you what. Please read 1891. The author explains it MUCH better than I could. I'll loan you a copy for two weeks. Here (hand then a copy). Please take this with you. Read it. Bring it back in two weeks. I'll be here at the next Seekers' Meeting. Can you come to our next meeting?"

SEEKER: "Yes, I think so."

TOMS: "Ok, I'll see you there. Remember, the Baha'i Faith doesn't have any one BOOK for you to read and pray about as the Church does! Rather, a Seeker must only HEAR the Prayers of Baha'u'llah being recited, and then ask God: 'Are these the words of the Spirit of Truth?' God will answer you. Thank you very much. God bless you, and we hope to see you back here on the _______ at 7:30pm. Go in peace!"